Good evening all Hamptonians,

Having started a previous discussion about Station Road and been inundated with replies from other concerned individuals, I met this evening with Cllr Gareth Roberts, who has been enormously helpful and has applauded my idea that we start a campaign to make Hampton roads safer. He has alerted me to the successful '20 is plenty' campaign in Merton, and I will be contacting them shortly for some ideas and support. I would like to initiate a similar campaign here in Hampton, and I am prepared to do as much as I can to make it happen - signs to prompt drivers to slow down, especially where pedestrians and cyclists are most vulnerable.

What I need now, is you! Your concerns, ideas and a little bit of your time. I know how busy you all are, and I have been too, but I can't do this on my own!

I have set up an email account called 20isplenty4hampton@gmail.com

Bombard me! I shall also set up a public meeting with a bit more advance notice this time, and a bit later in the evening, so everyone has a chance to attend. Watch this space! And dangerous, irresponsible drivers? Stop it now, we're after you!

Here's the national website with downloadable content http://www.20splentyforus.org.uk/

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Excellent news re dangerous and irresponsible drivers.
Why not start outside Hampton Junior School in the morning and afternoon, maybe the Parking Wardens could leave Station Road alone and concentrate on the Schools, incidentally Hanworth Road is no better. Is there a political reason why the Wardens are conspicuous by their absence?

Christine/Bill

Whilst I would generally support your proposals, I think there are two issues which need to be considered before anything is put into practice:

  1. I am not convinced that the issue with Station Road is drivers doing more than 20mph - I got the impressions that they were doing rather more than 30.  If I'm wrong, then I stand to be corrected but, if I'm right, then the "20 is plenty" campaign may not be relevant in these particular circumstances;
  2. when tables and cushions were placed on Oak Avenue, I asked the council why they also thought it necessary to reduce the speed limit to 20mph as I found driving over the humps at much above 20 rather uncomfortable.  I think the argument was that others would still drive at 30 and above but, if that were so, I can't see that a 20mph sign would have made them slow down any more - surely, the physical impediment to fast driving provided by humps is more effective than the visual one provided by a sign?  However, putting 20mph signs in Oak Avenue then produced a plethora of 30mph signs in adjoining roads (many in which would be more dangerous to drive much above 20 in any event, eg Fearnley Crescent and its tributary roads) because the council had no permission to lower the limit on these roads.  I think this anachronism needs to be sorted out before we go any further with 20mph areas; we are, after all, paying for all this, and I think we need to be sure that we are getting the value from it which we all desire.

1- most are driving below 30mph, the speed surveys back this up.

2- Speed bumps on station road are unlikely to put it mildly, since there seems little support from the council regarding traffic calming and local people for more speed bumps.



Trevor Allan said:

Christine/Bill

Whilst I would generally support your proposals, I think there are two issues which need to be considered before anything is put into practice:

  1. I am not convinced that the issue with Station Road is drivers doing more than 20mph - I got the impressions that they were doing rather more than 30.  If I'm wrong, then I stand to be corrected but, if I'm right, then the "20 is plenty" campaign may not be relevant in these particular circumstances;
  2. when tables and cushions were placed on Oak Avenue, I asked the council why they also thought it necessary to reduce the speed limit to 20mph as I found driving over the humps at much above 20 rather uncomfortable.  I think the argument was that others would still drive at 30 and above but, if that were so, I can't see that a 20mph sign would have made them slow down any more - surely, the physical impediment to fast driving provided by humps is more effective than the visual one provided by a sign?  However, putting 20mph signs in Oak Avenue then produced a plethora of 30mph signs in adjoining roads (many in which would be more dangerous to drive much above 20 in any event, eg Fearnley Crescent and its tributary roads) because the council had no permission to lower the limit on these roads.  I think this anachronism needs to be sorted out before we go any further with 20mph areas; we are, after all, paying for all this, and I think we need to be sure that we are getting the value from it which we all desire.
Roger
In which case there may be a problem. When they introduced a 20mph limit in Thames St, the borough safety officer made it clear that there was no real expectation that people would drive at 20, only that they wouldn't drive more than 30! Subsequently, the 20mph signs were removed and speed cameras introduced, which seem to do the trick. If there are to be no humps in Station Rd, then I suspect 20mph will be impractical and the only solution would be cameras.

and the cameras would would mean what? since most are keeping to the limit any way.

Trevor Allan said:

Roger
In which case there may be a problem. When they introduced a 20mph limit in Thames St, the borough safety officer made it clear that there was no real expectation that people would drive at 20, only that they wouldn't drive more than 30! Subsequently, the 20mph signs were removed and speed cameras introduced, which seem to do the trick. If there are to be no humps in Station Rd, then I suspect 20mph will be impractical and the only solution would be cameras.

Hello

20MPH is gaining recognition as a viable model on residential roads at the moment and I'd include Station Road as a residential road. Only a few days ago Camden Council announced it was looking to follow suit from Islington and introduce a borough wide 20 zone.

There are now no need for humps or chicanes, just signage.

I certainly think this is something well worth looking at for Hampton (in fact I'd say for the borough as a whole) and I'm happy to lend support and work to see this become reality

Roger Merriman said:

and the cameras would would mean what? since most are keeping to the limit any way.

Trevor Allan said:

Roger
In which case there may be a problem. When they introduced a 20mph limit in Thames St, the borough safety officer made it clear that there was no real expectation that people would drive at 20, only that they wouldn't drive more than 30! Subsequently, the 20mph signs were removed and speed cameras introduced, which seem to do the trick. If there are to be no humps in Station Rd, then I suspect 20mph will be impractical and the only solution would be cameras.

Well 20mph zones on the whole are one way though I'd guess would need to be a Borough wide, which makes sense, having one road 20mph the rest being 30mph doesn't seem to work, plenty do 20mph+ down queens road in teddington, a road I drive often at a indicated 20mph cars often just pull away.

Gareth Roberts said:

Hello

20MPH is gaining recognition as a viable model on residential roads at the moment and I'd include Station Road as a residential road. Only a few days ago Camden Council announced it was looking to follow suit from Islington and introduce a borough wide 20 zone.

There are now no need for humps or chicanes, just signage.

I certainly think this is something well worth looking at for Hampton (in fact I'd say for the borough as a whole) and I'm happy to lend support and work to see this become reality

Roger Merriman said:

and the cameras would would mean what? since most are keeping to the limit any way.

Trevor Allan said:

Roger
In which case there may be a problem. When they introduced a 20mph limit in Thames St, the borough safety officer made it clear that there was no real expectation that people would drive at 20, only that they wouldn't drive more than 30! Subsequently, the 20mph signs were removed and speed cameras introduced, which seem to do the trick. If there are to be no humps in Station Rd, then I suspect 20mph will be impractical and the only solution would be cameras.

Ahhh i see you think the cutbacks may be the reason for the absence of Parking Wardens around the schools Christine? well a friend explained to me some time ago that the parental voters might take exception to being given penalty charge notices by a Richmond Council controlled organisation,right or wrong? i have no idea, but now Gareth has joined this thread maybe he could shed some light on this matter?

Hello Bill

 

I wouldn't have thought cuts would have been a primary motivating factor here as the council outsources its parking contract. There are Civil Enforcement Officers doing the rounds but in my opinion they seem to be targetting the low hanging fruit - people who have no option other than to park overnight on yellow lines, for example, who may be five or ten minutes late leaving the house after 8.30am find themselves with a ticket for their pains. Far easier to nip round the ward on the scooters and pick up 3 or 4 easy targets than to tackle head on the parking issues near the schools.

 

Of course you may remember some very loud publicity a couple of years ago, talking about Fair Parking and promising an end to 'the dawn raid' - the small print revealed that this only applied to controlled parking zones, not yellow lines.


 
Bill Rosborough said:

Ahhh i see you think the cutbacks may be the reason for the absence of Parking Wardens around the schools Christine? well a friend explained to me some time ago that the parental voters might take exception to being given penalty charge notices by a Richmond Council controlled organisation,right or wrong? i have no idea, but now Gareth has joined this thread maybe he could shed some light on this matter?

Although I agree with everyone that people do drive along Station Road too quickly, a 20 mph limit is ridiculous on a bus route (they are the worst offenders), it is not classified as residential surely when it is a bus route?  Is it a B road? If so having fought for many years when I lived in Sandy Lane Teddington, we were told no slowing down measures could be taken (at that time no buses went along there) as it was a B road, having said that what I fought for to a degree happened with the speed cameras.

Gareth Roberts said:

Hello

20MPH is gaining recognition as a viable model on residential roads at the moment and I'd include Station Road as a residential road. Only a few days ago Camden Council announced it was looking to follow suit from Islington and introduce a borough wide 20 zone.

There are now no need for humps or chicanes, just signage.

I certainly think this is something well worth looking at for Hampton (in fact I'd say for the borough as a whole) and I'm happy to lend support and work to see this become reality

Roger Merriman said:

and the cameras would would mean what? since most are keeping to the limit any way.

Trevor Allan said:

Roger
In which case there may be a problem. When they introduced a 20mph limit in Thames St, the borough safety officer made it clear that there was no real expectation that people would drive at 20, only that they wouldn't drive more than 30! Subsequently, the 20mph signs were removed and speed cameras introduced, which seem to do the trick. If there are to be no humps in Station Rd, then I suspect 20mph will be impractical and the only solution would be cameras.


One also must remember when there was a 20 mph camera and zone in Thames Street the police could not officially book anyone, as the national speed limit is 30 mph, hence it was changed back to 30 mph.  What would improve Thames Street is a Pelican Crossing instead of a zebra crossing near The Bell, it is a case of take your life in your own hands trying to cross there, which I do on a regular basis.  Looking like a complete idiot I actually (after 3 cars or so have driven past me) waive like an idiot to get cars to stop
Gareth Roberts said:

Hello

20MPH is gaining recognition as a viable model on residential roads at the moment and I'd include Station Road as a residential road. Only a few days ago Camden Council announced it was looking to follow suit from Islington and introduce a borough wide 20 zone.

There are now no need for humps or chicanes, just signage.

I certainly think this is something well worth looking at for Hampton (in fact I'd say for the borough as a whole) and I'm happy to lend support and work to see this become reality

Roger Merriman said:

and the cameras would would mean what? since most are keeping to the limit any way.

Trevor Allan said:

Roger
In which case there may be a problem. When they introduced a 20mph limit in Thames St, the borough safety officer made it clear that there was no real expectation that people would drive at 20, only that they wouldn't drive more than 30! Subsequently, the 20mph signs were removed and speed cameras introduced, which seem to do the trick. If there are to be no humps in Station Rd, then I suspect 20mph will be impractical and the only solution would be cameras.

True you do have the R70, but I don't believe that route goes very far at all, I know that is no excuse, but the 111 and 216 have much longer journeys and if the whole borough went to 20 mph - which is far too slow, then those of us that use the buses wouldn't get anywhere on time lol

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