I know that I am not alone in being infuriated by the proliferation of yellow lines in Hampton (especially the double yellows...) which seem to serve no other purpose than to raise money for the council....

...and annoy residents.

Is there enough support out there to start a serious petition? My efforts so far (a small meeting at my house with a few residents and 2 councillors) has proved fruitless.

I attach a summary of the problem that I prepared for the meeting.

Amanda Hunt

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This can certainly be an issue that affects people in different ways. It would be nice if the council had some good system for getting feedback on what people think about yellow lines in different places. I think that if we want to get them to listen, it is probably best to focus on one example of yellow lines that are definitely no use to anyone and then try to get support for doing something about them. Then perhaps if the council listen on one case, they might be open to looking at others.
I agree re the station ones....see my attachment for the ones I am referring to!
There are sometimes when I agree with Amanda. Ho ho.
Can anyone help me to understand that, after a three year consultation process, us Council Tax payers living opposite the football ground have been deprived of two parking spaces when there is, clearly, no Health and Safety or otherwise reason for so doing?
Apologies for bad grammar - just mightily p*ssed off with having to budget £160.00 per month for parking fines when there is absolutely no need for the spaces not to be made available.
Just Bad Yellowlineage.
Parking in Station Road is chaotic. I have copies of the Traffic Management Orders for July 2008 and Dec 2007 to try and find out, among other things, at which point the parking bay outside Chino's vanished. People still park in it and are fined by the "Spy Car" as it patrols the area. I suspect I'l have to go back even further to produce the proof.

I don't live in Station Road, so would anyone care to enlighten me as to what form of consultation took place. No matter how it was carried out, it seems to have failed, as my feedback is that what has resulted is strangling the businesses in Hampton and upsetting the residents.

I'm interested in Jay's comment that she sees people driving away from the Station. The "commuter break" in the middle of the day close to the station is designed to prevent that, so now they fill the side streets instead. The local Councillors will not accept that people drive to the station from other areas, but locals seem sure that they do. Moving the travel zone out from Hampton to either Kempton Park or Sunbury would probably make Hampton a far less attractive place for commuters from our west to park. I undestand the difficultites and understand that it has been tried before (for the same good reasons I mentioned).

Facts are important rather than speculation, so I'll be carrying out my own survey, would anyone care to help?
There's no need for you to go to all that trouble in conducting a survey, John. Your local councillors ( those ones you accuse of not accepting that people drive to the station from other areas) and Lib Dem activists, myself included, conducted a week long survey at the station way back in April this year in response to the concerns raised at the Area Consultation Meeting just a few days earlier. The councillors have also been attempting to get some change to the zoning, but as the regional manager for SWT said to us at the Public Transport Liaison Group meeting we attended (again when we were looking into this problem all the way back in April) any change to the zoning would cost them money. Where, as a private company, is their incentive? You can see his point. I suppose it could be argued that had the Conservatives not sold off the railways back in the 90s there could have been more leverage but what's done is done.

Just to bring you up to date with the survey that was conducted nearly six months ago there appear to be very few people who drive in from Sunbury or beyond. We stopped roughly between 200 and 300 respondents each day (On one day we were able to survey a little shy of 350 commuters) and the vast majority of people walked to the station. By far the greater number of those who parked in the surrounding streets were driving to the Station from Hampton (areas such as The Ormonds) or in Hampton Nurserylands. The most people we found on any one day driving in from Sunbury was 5.

Of course this wasn't a complete survey as, and if you decide to do your own you'll find this, many, many people refused to stop and participate even though the question took seconds to administer. However, as an indicator of general travel patterns the results were pretty indicative that Sunbury commuters don't seem to be driving to Hampton to park, the problem is closer to home.

As you say, facts are important so I'm happy to have been able to provide you with some as I'm sure you'll agree this isn't a party issue, is it?


John Soones said:
Parking in Station Road is chaotic. I have copies of the Traffic Management Orders for July 2008 and Dec 2007 to try and find out, among other things, at which point the parking bay outside Chino's vanished. People still park in it and are fined by the "Spy Car" as it patrols the area. I suspect I'l have to go back even further to produce the proof.

I don't live in Station Road, so would anyone care to enlighten me as to what form of consultation took place. No matter how it was carried out, it seems to have failed, as my feedback is that what has resulted is strangling the businesses in Hampton and upsetting the residents.

I'm interested in Jay's comment that she sees people driving away from the Station. The "commuter break" in the middle of the day close to the station is designed to prevent that, so now they fill the side streets instead. The local Councillors will not accept that people drive to the station from other areas, but locals seem sure that they do. Moving the travel zone out from Hampton to either Kempton Park or Sunbury would probably make Hampton a far less attractive place for commuters from our west to park. I undestand the difficultites and understand that it has been tried before (for the same good reasons I mentioned).

Facts are important rather than speculation, so I'll be carrying out my own survey, would anyone care to help?
Naturally I'm aware of the Lib Dem survey.

And as Gareth points out, I prefer to deal with facts, so can he share the figures with us or direct us to where we can see the details of the survey?

The only fact he has shared so far is that a survey took place, which has never been in dispute.

I may be looking in the wrong place, but all I can find are statements and conclusions with no analysis or supporting evidence.
If you were aware of the fact that a survey had been conducted, John, why did you say that local councillors "will not accept that people drive to the station from other areas". Surely you would have known that they, having conducted a survey addressing this important matter, would at least have had some data at their finger tips whereas you were still dealing in speculation about where people drove in from.

I'm sure there will be no problem at all in sharing the findings of the survey, they were reported in the Richmond and Twickenham Times and in the Comments which is delivered to all households in the ward.

Where I'll take issue with you is the only fact that was imparted was that a survey took place. I mentioned the rough average of people sampled over the course of the sample period, the maximum number of those sampled on a particular day and the maximum number of those sampled who admitted to driving in from Sunbury. Perhaps you missed that paragraph.

Glad to see that you're taking an interest in the subject at last though, we could have done with the company six months ago when we were shivering away in the early hours of a chilly April morning!
Please can you share with us the numbers (not just the number of people polled), along with the details of the survey that support the conclusions arrived at?

You must be able to see that without numbers and details which can be verified, the conclusions arrived at are meaningless.

If I had been invited to join you in April, I'm sure I would have enjoyed the experience and I wouldn't be asking you for this information now.
My apologies for getting these details together for everybody.

OK - the context of the survey was to see how people arrived at the station in the morning. Did they Cycle, Walk, Catch the Bus, Drive & Park, Get a lift but car didn't park or get a lift where the car parked locally (for example, they were dropped off at the station and the car then parked to drop children at nearby schools)

All were asked the simple question "How did you get to the station this morning?"

Those who parked were then asked from where they drove in from.

So - Monday to Thursday (Friday wasn't surveyed as Friday often throws up anolmalies in surveying owing to people taking long weekends). Survey Time - 6.30am to approximately 9am

Results

MONDAY: 264 RESPONDENTS
Cyclists 12
Walkers 213
Bus 7
Drove & Parked 23
Got Lift 6
Got lift (Parked) 3

Areas driven/parked: Sunbury (5), Hampton North (8), Hampton (6), Hampton Hill (1), Refused (6)

TUESDAY 227 RESPONDENTS
Cyclists 10
Walkers 187
Bus 6
Drove & Parked 10
Got Lift 8
Got lift (Parked) 6

Areas driven/parked: Sunbury (4), Hampton North (9), Hampton (3)


WEDNESDAY 282 RESPONDENTS
Cyclists 13
Walkers 227
Bus 7
Drove & Parked 24
Got Lift 11
Got lift (Parked) 0

Areas Driven/Parked: Sunbury (5), Hampton Hill (3), Hampton (7), Hampton North (4), Hampton Court (1) East Molesey (2) Hanworth (1) Refused to say (1)

THURSDAY 342 RESPONDENTS
Cyclists 10
Walkers 261
Bus 8
Drove & Parked 29
Got Lift 32
Got lift (Parked) 2

Areas Driven/Parked: Sunbury (4), Hampton Hill (1), Hampton (6), Hampton North (10), Hampton Court (1) Weybridge (1!) Hanworth (1) Refused to say (7)

Obviously Tuesday was the slack day!

Naturally we were unable to stop everybody and there could have been lots of Sunbury Drivers among the refusers but it would be pure conjecture to say either way.
I too agree with those annoyed at the proliferation of yellow lines. All areas outside shops in Hampton should be free for parking, albeit it restricted to a 30 minutes ruling. The same should apply for areas around the station.

Re: the Survey...I took part in this survey, and although it was well intentioned, I am convinced that those who refused to take part were commuters away from Hampton! Does anyone seriously believe that there were only 5 drivers NOT from Hampton??
Well that's very much the problem, Simon, we just don't know where those refusers came from. While I accept that it could be inferred from their silence that they came from far beyond and didn't want to be given the skunk eye it could be equally be argued that those who refused to say where they'd come from were from local areas and were a bit embarrased that they'd driven such a relatively short distance. As I say, we just don't know

On the 30 minutes suggestion - you'll find that plays very badly with the many businesses in Hampton which rely on customers requiring more than 30 minutes to conduct their business. Hairdressers and Cafes for example would usually ask for longer stay parking bays.

Thanks for taking part though.
Published in the Richmond and Twickenham Times 09/10/2009

When you Assume...

"Do the Lib Dems really know better than local residents?

"They carried out a high profile Lib Dem survey at Hampton Station some months ago. The objective seemed to be to try and bust the theory that people drive from the west then park in Hampton to take advantage of the considerably lower fares. Their conclusions were published in the Richmind and Twickenham Times.

"The maximum number of drivers coming from the west was five, which local residents find laughable.

"On a local forum, one of their activists who worked on the survey, supplied the detailed results. The figures and his comments revealed that all their conclusions are just assumptions.

"He said, “many, many people refused to participate”. He went on to agree that they could be the very people they were trying to find. With the highly publicised anti-car policies of the Lib Dems, it’s no surprise that car drivers might refuse to answer their questions. He even suggested the reason why they were avoiding their questions, was because “they didn’t want the skunk eye in the morning” (I think that means, to be looked at disapprovingly).

"How seriously should the conclusions of a survey carried out this way be taken?

"When others on the forum said the results didn’t match their observations, he then admitted, “we just don't know" and “we were unable to stop everybody and there could have been lots of Sunbury Drivers among the refusers, but it would be pure conjecture to say either way?

"Even though they admit its pure conjecture, that still didn’t prevent them from publishing their conclusions, which matched their view of the world and not that of local residents. Rubbish data in, rubbish data out!

"Once again, the Lib Dems think they know better than local residents and they’ve been making an “ASS out of U and ME” for long enough, it’s time for change."

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